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We are beginning to have a problem in southwest Az. I and a friend are trying to get permission to work and stay on a full time claim with equipment and have been on the claim for 4 years. Have filed all papers and ready to pay bond and all we get is rejection and told that he makes the rules and the minning law is worthless. We need a lawyer very soon. Before long all we will be able to do is set home and watch Gold Fever. Please help, Thanks

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If a government employee is telling you this then tell them to put it in writing.

Also, buy a little digital recorder and tell them you are recording all the conversations.

This usually stops their make believe regulations. You can escalate anything they put in writing to D.C.

 

-Don

 

We are beginning to have a problem in southwest Az. I and a friend are trying to get permission to work and stay on a full time claim with equipment and have been on the claim for 4 years. Have filed all papers and ready to pay bond and all we get is rejection and told that he makes the rules and the minning law is worthless. We need a lawyer very soon. Before long all we will be able to do is set home and watch Gold Fever. Please help, Thanks

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If a government employee is telling you this then tell them to put it in writing.

Also, buy a little digital recorder and tell them you are recording all the conversations.

This usually stops their make believe regulations. You can escalate anything they put in writing to D.C.

 

-Don

 

Not only get it in writing but make sure it is on official letterhead!

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It does make it hard for anyone to give you a reasonable response. As the great Joe Friday would say (Just the Facts) who said the mining law is worthless? Also what is his title along with what department of our government does he “was going to say work for” rule over? Don is right on with his advice. As for me I would be really pissed off if anyone told me that they made the rules and that what they said superseded the laws of our land. They may think it but that’s as far as it goes :angry:

Cheers,

Howard

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I'd seriously look at getting an environmental consultant before getting a lawyer. The consultant would be both cheaper and more likely to get you your permits sooner. Yes, there are obstinate, arrogant BLM employees; there are also standards that must be met for permits. I'm kind of guessing that there is more to this situation that would be worthwhile to hear.

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I'd seriously look at getting an environmental consultant before getting a lawyer. The consultant would be both cheaper and more likely to get you your permits sooner. Yes, there are obstinate, arrogant BLM employees; there are also standards that must be met for permits. I'm kind of guessing that there is more to this situation that would be worthwhile to hear.

 

 

We do have recording of him telling that he makes the rules. He would like to see all minning gone. They have started clearing areas of structures and filling mine holes or putting cages over the mine holes. He changes his story every meeting. I met one of the BLM people out in the desert as he was making plans to clean up an area and he was all smiles as he told us that now they have money and the work is starting. We always try to be nice to these people but it is getting hard to do. We are planning to contact congress. We just need to have some guidelines as the paperwork is correct and been delivered 3 times and rejected for no good reason. Thanks guys and do any one know of an enviromental consutant that is good with this type of projects.

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I recommend getting someone in your own area. I know some good folks up this way, but none off the top of my head in SW AZ. If you cant get folks in the immediate area, look to Phoenix as next closest.

 

What kind of scale are you trying to operate?

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It is the responsibility for a federal employee to enforce the law. Not to interpret it. In Az. contact your senator......Mr. John McCain for those were his exact words some years ago on public TV about the superstition mountains.

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Might suggest joining PLP (public Land for the People). They have lawyers and from what I've read in the newsletters and other places, are there to fight legitimate cases between the miners and the BS of some gestapol, I mean goverment employees.

 

Shep

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Thanks guys for any help. This all started last year when the BLM came around to all claim holders they could find working with new rules. We was to remove all and I mean ALL equipment from our workings if we left for any time over a week. We was allowed to leave the Griz if we put it over in a hole that no one could see but if we left for any time over 2-3 weeks we was to remove it. No camping on our claims unless it was in a 14 day limit area and then only for the 14 days. There is alot more we all are facing and not just down here. Thanks again for any help or leads

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Unfortunately, the kind of problems you're encountering are common with the bureaucrats attempting to enforce "policy" over "Statute"...I and my partners went to court many years ago on the same deal and won, although I will have to say we had to keep winning, then winning again, then winning again, etc. ... Freakin' govt. employees don't have to worry about making payroll, maintaining equipment, etc., when they go home to their cozy Government Provided housing at night ... OK...Taking some blood pressure meds and going to sleep ... :):( Keep after it and good luck ... Cheers, Unc

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I may be misunderstanding your comments, but if you've been working this claim for 4 years with mechanized equipment and a grizzley with no previous permits - well you've got issues. Its been decades since you could use mechanized digging equipment on a claim without any special permits. Again assuming I am rightly understanding what you are saying, I'm not saying that I support how BLM or the forest service handles these things, but I am pointing out that those are the rules and they have been in place for a long time.

 

Again I'd urge you to get a good environmental advisor / consultant and get them involved.

 

Chris

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Sorry Reno but we have been meeting all laws and regs but this new guy is writing new rules to the way he wants it. We are asking for and willing to pay to update and increas our operation by the law, so quit trying to read between the lines. I am not the best writer or anyting else, but Iam not a cheat or crook and trying to operate obove or beyond the law.I have come to all of you for help and thanks to the ones that have offered. We need to help each other or we will be setting home watching TV and wondering what happen if we don't work together.

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bflyr2

Just so we can get this straight.

Are you saying that you have been working

under a BLM approved Plan of Operations

for the last 4 years,or an approved notice

of intent? Are you saying that you are just

trying to upgrade an existing bonded plan

or notice for more production,and permits

for long term living and machinery storage,

as in a real commercial mine?

 

The district BLM office does have the

authority to handle all Notices and Plans.

They can approve or deny either one.

If they deny you,then you appeal to the

Department of Interior. If that doesn't

work you can take it to court. Talking to

congress won't get you anything. In order

to get a court hearing,you have to go

through the DOI and BLM appeals process

first.

 

Not trying to hassle you but, in order to

help' the right information is important.

I do know a Good mining lawyer in your

area. He will help with writing plans and

all the other BS,but he ain't cheap.

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bflyr2-

 

Not trying to give you a hard time - in fact just the opposite, but as sawmill noted "in order to

help the right information is important."

 

The more you tell us of your situation, the more that can be offered for help. There are other guys who have been involved in permitting here.

 

At this point we know very little of your situation beyond the fact you are having difficulty with a BLM staffer.

 

Chris

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Don71

Someone told you wrong.

Unless you have an agreement in an

approved plan or notice,14 days is

the limit period. Having an active

claim only entitles you to casual

use unless you have a notice or plan

of operations. A notice only is good

for exploration,you are not allowed

to actually mine with a notice.

 

A notice is only good for testing

or trying to locate a source.

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Sorry Reno but we have been meeting all laws and regs but this new guy is writing new rules to the way he wants it. We are asking for and willing to pay to update and increas our operation by the law, so quit trying to read between the lines. I am not the best writer or anyting else, but Iam not a cheat or crook and trying to operate obove or beyond the law.I have come to all of you for help and thanks to the ones that have offered. We need to help each other or we will be setting home watching TV and wondering what happen if we don't work together.

 

Wow bflyr2 ... Reno is not accusing ... not his nature ... just trying to sort through and eliminate the obvious possibilities for the govt official giving you grief. You have been given good advise on what to do ... talk to your US Senator and Representative ... have a copy of the regs with you when you talk to this Napolean ... get to his supervisor ... and get all "requirements" in writing.

 

Advise for the future when you are asking for help ... don't try to bite the hand that feeds you if you aren't exactly sure where/what the context of your advisor is coming from ... especially if you think you might want advise in the future. Just my two cents worth ... without bias ... without malicous intent ... just trying to be helpful and calm the nerves for you a bit.

 

Mike F.

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Computer been in shop but to update all, sorry if I sound a little grouchy but just getting tired of all the crap we have to go through to just have a little fun, retire and die someday. We have made contact with some people that you all pointed us too. Thanks. To explain a little better we have a plan that we have been operating under but want to make a small change that under the laws, rules, heresay, regulations and so on is legal. But we are dealing with people that want us all gone. They want to return this area to what it was before the minning ever was in the area. Had a gov. woman stop me and my wife on a trail that we know was open and she told us that this area was a cultural off limits area because of indians that had been there, I asked where are the signs, then she informed us that this area we was in was closed because of the black tailed lizards in this area and no one was to be there. Again I asked where are the signs. No answer. This is just another tactic to keep everone out of thier desert.All lies. We will still go into that area because I have checked with the proper persons and have maps showing all off limit areas here. Some of the miners are planning to get together this fall after doing this contact work over the summer and try to get something done. We will do our best but with an election year comming up no telling what will happen. Thanks again

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bflyr2

 

Indeed we all are trying to assist you. But I'm starting to get the impression you are talking about two different things. Your mining claim and access to another area.

 

Other than your proposed changes to your claim. You are entitled to access your existing up to date claim. People here like Reno Chris when it comes to mining. Let's say what he forgot we will never learn. Seek his advice.

 

The same holds true for me with agencies within the federal government. If an area is off limits for some reason. SOP is that area be fenced off and signed. If you feel a misjustice inquire at your local USFS/BLM office. Go through the chain of command. If a federal employee is overstepping their authority report them.

 

 

But if this is two separate issues please clarify.--Jim

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